I'll use a basic example of what I'm talking about: a single one-handed weapon. I'll use my Echoing Fury.

Echoing Fury states: 620-986 damage at 1.42 attacks per second. This is simple: the weapon randomly hits for a number between 620-986 1.42 times every second (and then all the modifiers boost it). The average damage it does is simply the mean: (620+986)/2 = 803.

Now let's say I equip a +30 min damage ring. My damage range that Diablo 3 selects from is now 650-986. It's impossible for the weapon to draw from damage lower than 650 now. The average damage, however, has only increased by 15 because (650+986)/2 = 818. To increase average damage by 30, it would have to increase the TOTAL by 60.

+30 max would be the same average but the range would be 620-1016.

+15-45 is basically +15 min, +45 max and that would be an increase of 30 average damage.

When it has both +min damage and +max damage on the item separately , it's the same thing as +min-max, but it uses two affixes. So yeah, it's kinda dumb, but you would just take the average again.

Posted by zerokewl at 11/06/2012 08:59 AM

@douvinsky

I agree, but dividing min damage alone by 2 doesn't truely represent the average damage that stat adds.

Your equation makes it much clearer. My thought was he had dropped the 'B' variable from the equation incorrectly. Can't remove it from one side without removing it from the other...if my math knowledge is correct.

Let's try one with basic numbers.

100-300= 200 avg dps

130-300= 215 avg dps
100-330= 215 avg dps

BUT as said your min 130 hit happens every time where as your max hit is one out of 230 hits assuming each damage swing has same chance.

@Zerokewl, @Metta

I will try to explain this using
1) Raw Numbers Illustration
2) General Reasoning

1) Raw Numbers (1 - 10) Illustration with 2 scenarios (+2, +8)

- As you can see, after taking into account probabilities of each hit, the average dmg are the same between +X min and +X max in each scenario.



2) General Reasoning

Using the previous A (min dmg) and previous B (max dmg) of the range of dmg:

+30 min dmg add 30 minimum to every swing, hence we can no longer see dmg in the order of [A to A+29], but see [A+30 to B].
+30 max dmg add 30 maximum to the range, hence we can still see dmg in the order of [A to A+29] and [A+30 to B], and additionally now [B+1 to B+30].

Both the above shares the range of [A+30 to B]. +30 max dmg in addition has wider range...... [A to A+29] below the shared range, and [B+1 to B+30] above the shared range, both are symmetrical on the shared range. Hence, due to this symmetric, after taking into account probabilities of hitting at all ranges, they are hitting on average the same.


Using +8 scenario above:

- +8 Min Dmg shortened the range of dmg to (9-10) from (1-10)
- +8 Max Dmg lengthened the range of dmg to (1-18) from (1-10)
- Both the above hit the range of (9-10), but additionaly +8 Max Dmg will hit (1-8) + (11-18)...which are symmetrical on the shared (9,10) hence when they average out (i.e. having the same probability of hitting) they all average to (9,10), or 9.5.

Posted by zerokewl at 11/06/2012 08:59 AM

@douvinsky

I agree, but dividing min damage alone by 2 doesn't truely represent the average damage that stat adds.

Your equation makes it much clearer. My thought was he had dropped the 'B' variable from the equation incorrectly. Can't remove it from one side without removing it from the other...if my math knowledge is correct.

Let's try one with basic numbers.

100-300= 200 avg dps

130-300= 215 avg dps
100-330= 215 avg dps

BUT as said your min 130 hit happens every time where as your max hit is one out of 230 hits assuming each damage swing has same chance.

Dont want to be rude but you gave the example. And now let us now whats the difference to @Metta's calculation by only dividing the added min or max damage by 2. As I can see its 15 added to average damage in any case.
I do agree as you said +min always adds whereas +max only has a chance to get into real damage.

Posted by Metta at 10/30/2012 11:19 AM

Inna's Favor adds bonus damage to NON-ELEMENTAL damage on your weapons.

@Metta

Hmm... obviously I totally misunderstood this item as well.
Based on the wording I assumed it only adds damage to anything I have (typically skills) that already does holy damage, like Wave of Light.

But I guess I'm wrong, looking at the wording of Won Khim Lau.
Which says "adds x% to Ligtning Damage"
And then also "Lightning Skills deal y% more damage"

I don't get it.
It says "Adds 8% TO Holy Damage".
Wouldn't the proper words be "Adds 8% Holy Damage". Have to say that english isn't my native language.

So in a nutshell @Anuiran, whenever I see "Adds xx% to YYYY Damage" this will be added to black damage and increases my dps?

@Bort @h311o You are both right, the wording of this property is confusing. Most people, including myself, don't interpret it correctly until it's explained by someone else.

If you have gear with this property (inna's favor, triumverate, etc), you'd get the most benefit out of something like the butcher's sickle, or any high DPS weapon with no elemental (only +min/max damage).

Upgraded my shoulders to Vile Ward.




Then I realised it doesn't fit @Metta 's definition of BiS or even Walmart.

But at least it is affordable to me :P

For those who are playing Demon Hunters as opposed to Monks, I came across this site, which has BiS legendary/set items for DHs: http://d3ib.com/demon-hunter-best-in-slot-legendary-list/

The list of items for DH BiS is compiled from the top DH players at http://www.diabloprogress.com/

@douvinsky

Those rare shoulders are actually pretty sick. I actually prefer the rare one because even though the dex is slightly lower, I'm 99% sure the EHP from the rare one is higher (106 vit is going to beat 11 resist and 330 armor or so). It even has slightly higher MF! But yeah my feeling on Vile Ward is that it's either not that great or BiS. I wouldn't call mine BiS, but the uber dex at least justifies using it over a more defensive rare.

@Metta

Yes, those rare shoulders are sick (can't find a better similar in AH, and hence it is very difficult to price) and I have been in a predicament on whether to keep them. I have seen people expressing different views in the D3 forum. Some said the Vile Ward +armor and life regen is uber especially at higher MPs. This Vile Ward even have 97 strength which translate to additional 97 armor for me. The Vile Ward also has +%MF which helps me out in my MF farming runs.

I think I am equally happy to keep either of them, as long as I can get enough out of selling the other one. And maybe come one day I can just buy a much better Vile Ward than either of these two!

And maybe come one day I can just buy a much better Vile Ward than either of these two!

I finally own a BiS for 30m -- it burnt a hole in my pocket!